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Thread: Stupid Human TRICKS!

  1. #1
    PRA Secretary JOHN ROUNTREE 41449's Avatar
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    Stupid Human TRICKS!

    This is where the truly brave tell the truth in spite of our oversize pilot EGOS!

    It hard enough to share our Equipment & Pilot ERRORS HERE.

    NO BASHING ALLOWED HERE AT ALL!

    Probably not even looking for an anwser on how it could have been prevented. Unless THEY ASK do not OFFER! They KNOW NOW!!!

    They are trying to help! No one will post if we just call them stupid.
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  2. #2

    Angry STUPID STUDENT PILOT STUNT!!!!

    I had a DOOZY .... very serious near-miss incident back in May 2014 ... on my first excursion away from my home airport to 2 nearby airports!

    I was abjectly humbly apologetic to the 2 Stearman formation pilots (The lead & wingman) who confronted me on the apron shortly after landing. We all realized how lucky we were & thanked God!

    I had nightmares ( & daymares) for a week after ... until my fly-buddy ... got me "back-on-the-horse" ... so to speak!

    Here is the email I received from the formation leader ... after I bumped into him @ a safety seminar ....

    Hi Christine;

    What a coincidence to meet you last night! It was good to talk to you about some of the details or our near-miss incident.....What a coincidence to meet you last night! It was good to talk to you about some of the details or our near-miss incident…my intent is to learn from it and distribute that information to others. The fact that you were at the meeting indicates to me that you are a safety-minded pilot who wants to learn from it as well. (Was that a boring meeting or what??) It is, in my opinion, irresponsible to ignore lessons to be learned from incidents that occur in aviation that could help prevent future accidents.

    Please take a look at the attached report and let me know if you see any info that is not correct or needs more detail. My memory fails me sometimes and I have trouble recollecting facts but I want to make sure it is accurate. We can discuss again anytime if you would like.

    Come see us out at Benton sometime. Have a good weekend!

    Rod

    Rod Hoctor
    Manager, Learjet
    Production Flight Test

    rodney.hoctor@aero.bombardier.com



    The Stearman formation squadrons incident report was attached to this email ... but until I get home to a REAL computer (only have Ipad) ... I cannot access the word-doc report to publish here.

    This is the reply I sent to Rod to share my viewpoint with the group. ... They were all most appreciative of my sharing & learning from my blunder!


    G'day Rod,
    Yes I agree ... despite the utterly terrifying & humiliating(for me) conditions of our first meeting @ Benton on May 31st - it was good to see you @ the FAAST safety seminar .....& yes I DO attend as many of the AOPA & FAA - wings seminars that are run locally as I can! ... so no con-incidence in my attendance ... I get to as many as I can. I AM VERY SAFETY MINDED .... despite my awful stupid student pilot deviation from so many correct aviation practices on the 31st - which put us all in a very dangerous situation!

    Here is my view of the events.

    A fellow gyro pilot "KG" ( experienced helicopter pilot & a ~ 200 hour experience gyro pilot)- visiting the area with his blue MTO sport .... & I flew from Newton airport to High Point in Valley center for an EAA fly-in. We arrived early so I could make my first landings in my gyro( red/white) on the unfamiliar grass strip & first landing away from my home field KEWK ... without an "audience" ... at least a large one!

    After a while visiting with our hosts we decided to go fly around the local area some more ... I suggested we go to Benton - as a nearby "interesting destination" airfield... I was totally unaware of any airshow or extraordinary activity at Benton likely that day..... otherwise I would have stayed FAR AWAY ... as being a student pilot very new to leaving my home-base environment .... it would be poor ADM on my part to put myself in such a busy congested environment!

    I see the mistakes I made ...thus....

    #1 - Poor ADM - impulsive choice to go visit Benton ... without good information about activity at the destination.
    #2 - mistake not planning better with the radio frequency. I normally have the destination frequency on the flip-flop ... but KG suggested we have a "personal frequency" to talk to each other en-route & not use(clutter) the Valley center freq. due to arriving traffic to the fly-in - once we had cleared the Valley center area we switched to personal freq. ..... when we were N of Jabara ..... we switched to Benton freq .... BUT...

    #3 I had not written down on my windscreen ( as is my usual practice) the Benton frequency & in the mental overload situation I couldn't remember it .... when I discovered it was not in my list of all the local airport/awos/clearance frequencies on my pre-programmmed list ( I was SURE I had entered it ... so kept looking/ scrolling!) .... I was very nervous approaching the airport in radio silence& lost communication with my flying buddy!
    He had seen on his GPS that 17 was right pattern & went low & S to enter on the downwind 45 ...... he was in the lead as we entered the airport area ..... as his gyro is faster than mine. About 1 mile West of the 17 end I saw him dive low & head south & lost sight of him against the dark trees & ground ... I was on my own! He said later that he was worried I was not on frequency ... but as it was so active with many aircraft talking ... he thought they were overriding my calls. He kept announcing that there were 2 gyros on approach & in pattern to alert all traffic to our presence!

    I fly much higher (800-1,000ftAGL) than he ( ~500') to give myself better over-all view of what is around & time & options in case of needing to make emergency landing!
    I scanned the airport pattern & noted an aircraft well south & another to the north turning final. I tried one last time to tune my radio ..... As I raised my eyes for another sky-scan .... I saw 2 yellow biplanes immediately ahead & below me ( one smoking to alert me!) . everywhere I looked were yellow planes above . below & to my left ... a starburst of planes ... all around me! By now I was in total shock & disbelief that I had not seen such a large group of brightly coloured aircraft approaching me ... I had been WAY too focused on my radio issue!

    I checked for landing traffic to the north ... saw all clear & went low & landed as quickly as possible to get out of the air!
    KG saw I was landed & parked & knew where I was . he continued in the pattern & made a correct approach & landing!

    WOW - in reading your excellent & comprehensive report ... I get the "shakes" - all over again! One typo (I think) CTAF frequency 123.075 ( I read 123.07????) That WAS indeed a very serious situation & a very near miss ..... I commend all the Stearman pilots for their professionalism & experienced pilotage in their evasive maneuvering. ( It is likely a GOOD thing that I did not see you all until the last minute --- as who knows what action I may have taken ... flinching - or panicking!????))

    Also most commendable - I appreciate ( even more so now - having read your incident report) your calm & professional conversation with me on the ramp ...asking if I knew I'd broken up a formation & how I could not possibly have seen 5 very large yellow biplanes in the pattern! ???? I imagine you were very upset at the time!

    All week after I lost much sleep reviewing the events & incident..... trying to identify all the mistakes I made and alternate action options at different stages of my flight. In the ramp conversation with you & #2 (Joe?) - the importance of being prepared & predictable in the approach to & in pattern of uncontrolled airport was brought severely home. Most important AVIATE #1 - Navigate - then Communicate!

    In the wisdom of hindsight.

    I SHOULD have stayed well away from the airfield when I could not get tuned on the right radio frequency. Flew north away from Benton / Jabara until I sorted out my radio issue.

    As a flight of 2 - I could have kept closer to my buddy & followed his lead on correct downwind 45 entry to the 17 right pattern. Letting him make the radio calls.

    I was surprised that any of the Stearman flight of 5 reported seeing him ( Blue gyro) in the incident vicinity ... as I had lost him by this point - he went low & south!

    I need to make better preparation when flying into an unfamiliar airport. ( without the distraction of flying with a buddy ... I WOULD have been properly prepared!)

    I have learned SO many practical aviation lessons through this terrifying incident! (Just too bad at the expense of what little confidence I was achieving to fly away from the local airport area!) ..... book -learning & all the studies, AOPA interactive courses, FAAST/wings seminars ... just cannot imprint deeply enough what can be learned out in the real aviation situations!

    I am profoundly grateful for the experienced expertise & professionalism of watchful pilots in the Stearman formation. Also for your gracious & kind approach to me on the ramp .... as a shaken student pilot - your cool heads were much appreciated after such a serious near miss!

    With much appreciation & glad for the opportunity to learn further.

    " you can educate ignorance but can't fix stupid" .... hoping I prove to be the former not the latter!

    Good accurate incident report & I learned a LOT from seeing it through your perspective! Thank you for sharing it with me.

    Glad we met again @ the "boring seminar" .... yes I will come fly out & see you @ Benton ... when I have a LOT more experience & regain my confidence! I'm all for the review & learning & sharing process - to help avoid future incidents & accidents ..... I have lost too many friends & peers to not appreciate the importance of disseminating lessons-learned in the aviation community!

    sincerely

    Christine Toevs



    Last edited by Christine Toevs 42127; 01-17-2015 at 03:01 AM. Reason: NOT FULLY POSTED

  3. #3
    Well bloody hell ... after several post previews & deletions of only partial post showing in box - once submitted.... I thought I got the whole lot to finally post ... but now back to a very limited view of a quite long post!! .....we gotta glitch here - methinks!!!!


    OK John ... thanks for the hints for overcoming the glitch ... looks like I got posted "The-rest-of-the-story"

    Just the other report ... to add ... when I get home to a decent computer / internet!!!
    Last edited by Christine Toevs 42127; 01-17-2015 at 03:09 AM.

  4. #4

    From OZYRuss .....

    Sharing this here ... there are a LOT of great accident reviews in the ASRA magazine ... of "down-under" "stuff-ups" ... OzyRuss has been open with his sharing ... copied his post on RWF ... here!

    Quote Originally Posted by OzyRuss View Post
    Easy........I stuffed up.
    I own a fixed wing aircraft as well, and hadn't flown the gyro for 7...9 mths. Getting back into gyro and doing some flights about, then came into land, as nose wheel touched down the machine veered savagely right.....into ditch drain area, nose wheel strut broke......over we go.
    Moral of the story, fly / land gyros, as you were trained to do.......not like a fixed wing. ( touched down at around 20....30 kts )
    Cause.......steering shaft had jammed right because pivot bushing had grown.
    ( nylon......moisture affected....hygroscopic is the term. Some nylons suck up moisture, then expand / grow ) .......hope this helps others.
    Damages were surprisingly low actually, to this day it amazes me. Rebuild as new again should be completed by end 2015 .....no rush, I've got the plank wing to get us about.
    A better preflite check would've picked the steering problem......tip the gyro back onto tail wheel, then manually rotating nose wheel full left and right.....seizing would've shown then.
    Hind sight........don't ya just love it........earlier that day, I noticed when doing ground turning, the turns were not tight, as normal....like needed bigger turning circle areas to turn around, I put that down to ........Gee, seems unusual....but maybe that was normal.....as it had been long time flying the machine.
    If you get my drift.
    Anyway......it's done now, no injuries to both of us. Me pax has said he's up for more gyro flying when the build is completed.

  5. #5
    PRA Secretary JOHN ROUNTREE 41449's Avatar
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    Now that was exciting day of flying!
    I respect you and the Rod Hoctor for posting! Which they follow your most excellent advice of what you would do now; this will never happen you them!!!

    Solely because you had the guts to teach and not hide that we are ALL HUMAN and make mistakes.

    Also to all the rest of us:
    Notice she did not need us to tell her what she did wrong and in this case even what to do next time!!!!
    And there was no bashing!!! I like that part about PRA's brothers and sisters forum where we can all learn without the peanut gallery?
    PRA- Director
    PRA- Volunteer Coordinator

    PRA31 - Vice President of S.D. Rotorcraft Club
    http://www.Pra31.org

    U.S. Agent for Aviomania Aircraft... the most stable gyroplane on the market today.
    See: Aviomania USA http://www.AviomaniaUSA.com

    OEM Dealer for MGL Avionics - glass cockpit EFIS for Experimental aircraft Ask about DISCOUNTS for PRA MEMBERS

  6. #6
    Thanks for sharing this. I will learn from it. I hope everyone does.

  7. #7

    Incident report.

    Now I am home ... able to access the Stearman formation report ... atttached PDF.

    Deeply disturbing & Scary!
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #8
    PRA Secretary JOHN ROUNTREE 41449's Avatar
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    Good lessons to be learned here!!
    PRA- Director
    PRA- Volunteer Coordinator

    PRA31 - Vice President of S.D. Rotorcraft Club
    http://www.Pra31.org

    U.S. Agent for Aviomania Aircraft... the most stable gyroplane on the market today.
    See: Aviomania USA http://www.AviomaniaUSA.com

    OEM Dealer for MGL Avionics - glass cockpit EFIS for Experimental aircraft Ask about DISCOUNTS for PRA MEMBERS

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